watervole: (Default)
Judith Proctor ([personal profile] watervole) wrote2010-01-07 10:06 am

Heating and Insulation

This is what ten inches of loft insulation does (photo taken this morning):



The neighbours, as you will observe, have somewhat less.

We've got insulation in the loft floor, and also between the rafters in the roof.  We've got floor boards over the floor insulation, so we also have full use of the loft as storage space - and the ceiling insulation means that although the loft is cold, you don't freeze when you go up there in winter.

Interestingly, my mother-in-law (the incomparable Molly) has a similar roof effect, although she has no insulation at all.

She lives in a very old, half-timbered house.  It can't have things like cavity wall insulation. She turned down an offer of loft insulation from the council as she didn't feel it would benefit her, and there is no double-glazing.  She's 80, lives on her own (with her dog) on her pension, and you're probably now imagining a wretched old lady shivering in the cold.

Not Molly.  We phoned her last night just to be sure she was okay, though we knew it was almost certainly unnecessary.  She replied cheerfully that she was fine.  It was so cold last night that she actually turned the convection heater on in her bedroom for the first time in ages.  She's spending the day in the lounge and only bothering to heat the one room (coal fire), thus saving costs on heating the rest of the house.

She laughingly pointed out that she still has snow on her roof whereas her neighbours with insulation had none left on theirs.  She says they waste heat, heating every room and having the thermostat set far too high.

Molly just adds a thick wool jumper, wears warm socks, and only heats the room she actually needs.  (and with a coal fire, that room is very comfortable).  She'll keep warm by walking the dog, eat well by digging up a few veg from the garden, and hopefully be fit and well for many years yet to come.  (though we're all grateful to the friend who drove her to the shops to stock up on essentials just before the snow hit - Molly has a lot of friends, she's lived a long time in her village and has helped many local causes over the years).

Therefore the Proctor family tips on saving heating bills (and CO2 emissions) appear to be: insulate as well as you possibly can, only heat the rooms you really need to, and wear warm clothing.

[identity profile] jophan.livejournal.com 2010-01-07 11:19 am (UTC)(link)
Hehe, ten inches is so little it's almost illegal in Sweden! But then we had -26 C here yesterday morning...
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[identity profile] watervole.livejournal.com 2010-01-07 12:09 pm (UTC)(link)
LOL! We could learn a lot from you.

Is it true that new houses in Sweden have to have ground -source heat pumps? They're only easy to do if installed from the beginning, but they're also supposed to be very effective.
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[identity profile] cdybedahl.livejournal.com 2010-01-07 12:42 pm (UTC)(link)
AFAIK it's not a requirement, but you get tax breaks to install them (and they work so well) that almost all new houses get them anyway. And they can't be that hard to retrofit, because I know several people who has done that.

[identity profile] jophan.livejournal.com 2010-01-07 01:11 pm (UTC)(link)
What Calle says. It's not mandatory but becoming increasingly common. However, it's less common that I thought according to official statistics (http://www.scb.se/statistik/_publikationer/BO0801_2009A01_BR_BO01BR0901.pdf -- see Table 3.1.2, page 95, "One- or two-dwelling buildings by type of used energy". Look at year of building, Byggår in the middle, at 2006.

Endast olja = oil only
Endast el = electricity only
Olja o biobränsle = oil and bio fuel
Endast biobränsle = bio fuel only
Biobränsle o el = bio fuel and electricity
Olja, biobränsle o el = oil, bio fuel and electricity
Berg/jord/sjö, vp = ground/lake, air heat pumps
Annat = other

Converting is easy provided you have a heating system that pipes around hot water in radiators. Then you just switch from an electricity or oil-fired boiler to water warmed by ground-source heating. However, if you have radiators powered by direct electricity -- like we do -- then it's more complicated. Tearing up the floors to install floor-based heating is an option we're considering, but it's expensive and messy.
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[identity profile] watervole.livejournal.com 2010-01-07 01:29 pm (UTC)(link)
Interesting - the heat pump % is small, but growing rapidly.

I understood that the expensive part was the heat pump itself. It has to go deep in the ground and digging the hole is much cheaper when you have all the digging machinery there to start with.

[identity profile] jophan.livejournal.com 2010-01-07 01:33 pm (UTC)(link)
IIRC, the pump and drilling the hole down into the rock layer costs about 15,000 pounds or somewhere in that region. Not terribly expensive, but it takes 10-15 years before you recoup the money. Possibly a lot longer in England, I don't know.
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[identity profile] watervole.livejournal.com 2010-01-07 01:41 pm (UTC)(link)
LOL! I wish I was in a position to call £15,000 'not terribly expensive'.

I'd like to have done it for my son's house, but he wouldn't have been able to afford the rent increase necessary to pay for it.

[identity profile] jophan.livejournal.com 2010-01-07 01:50 pm (UTC)(link)
Well, it would of course be terribly expensive if I couldn't recoup the money within a few years. In the typical case, heating costs around £2,000 per annum here, and that's brought down to less than £1,000 with ground-source heating. So you take a loan using the house as security and pay it off slowly, and after a number of years your costs are substantially lower AND you emit less CO2. Win-win.

However, if you can't afford the increased instalment payments, it's difficult. And I realise that it's probably less rewarding financially in England.
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[identity profile] watervole.livejournal.com 2010-01-07 03:15 pm (UTC)(link)
Our heating costs are probably less than £500 a year, so the payback period would be a lot longer.
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[identity profile] hawkeye7.livejournal.com 2010-01-07 09:13 pm (UTC)(link)
Everyone I know here who has a heat pump has a new house. I'd been under the impression that they were hard to retrofit. (And who has a house that pipes water around in radiators?) I'll have to have another look. Unlike the rainwater tank and the the solar panels, you can't get a government rebate for installing them here, which is a pity. I think this is why we lag a long way behind you in Australia. A forty-degree temperature variation in 24 hours occurs here, but only in summer.

The building codes here say little about such matters. They seem obsessed with protecting dwellings from insects. We still lose more houses every year to hungry insects than fires though. I did know a couple who decided to forego insulation entirely. Everything went okay until they went on vacation in winter. Then their pipes froze and flooded the house.
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[identity profile] watervole.livejournal.com 2010-01-08 09:03 am (UTC)(link)
Water in radiators is the norm in the UK.

What do Australians normally use?
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[identity profile] hawkeye7.livejournal.com 2010-01-08 11:43 am (UTC)(link)
Usually ducted heating. Air is heated and circulates through ducts in the floor. Or a simple fixed space heater.

It occurs to me that I don't really know what my heating costs, as all I have is a gas bill, and the gas is also used for cooking and hot water.
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[identity profile] watervole.livejournal.com 2010-01-07 01:19 pm (UTC)(link)
It may be the tax break that makes the retrofit possible. We looked into it a couple of years ago, and the cost was very high.