Random thoughts on veils

[watervole]

This will be brief (as the tooth is aching), but I was listening to an interesting phone in on Radio 4 this afternoon which had a number of very intelligent contributions.

It seems to me that a Muslim woman's veil has very different meanings in different parts of the world.

There are parts of the world where it can, and is, used to subjugate women; but in Britain, some women wear it very much as a positive gesture - as an outward declaration of their faith. (I felt really sorry for one woman who had worn it until recently and had been forced to give it up as she could no longer bear the name-calling from people in the street) There are families where some daughters freely choose to wear it and some do not. There are women of Anglo-Saxon ethnic origin who choose to wear it after converting to Islam.

It actually seems to me that wearing the veil in many countries shows a lack of freedom/independence for women, but that in Britain (for some women at least), it is the wearing of it that demonstrates freedom and independence.

I don't like it - I find it alienating not to see someone's face - but I'm starting to understand why some women choose to wear it.

Comments

[lonemagpie.livejournal.com]

I think really it's often social/cultural, and often dates to the pre-Islamic era of some areas.

In the Quran it merely says women should "dress modestly and cover their hair" - which means that unless they've got a beard, a veil *should* be optional. Any religious authority (e.g. the Taliban) who says otherwise are therefore apostates by their own logic, and deserve all they get, by their own logic...

[steverogerson.livejournal.com]

I believe people (within certain limits*) should be allowed to wear what they want and I find it very offensive that a government minister is saying otherwise when it comes to veils.

*Yes, there are limits. For example, I would object to someone, say, wearing a T-shirt with a blatantly racist slogan on it.

[dev-iant.livejournal.com]

I think that people should abide by the customs and conventions of the country they are in. If I was in a muslim country, I would expect to abide by their expectations and I think that they should do so in this country.

Like you, I find veils alienating, but mostly I feel that they are symbols of repression - I find it difficult to understand why any person, given a free choice, would choose to wear one. Even if some women do genuinely chose to wear them, this still reinforces the pressure on those who are given no choice.

You could argue that wearing a hoodie is a demonstration of freedom and independence, but that doesn't mean that people should be allowed to wear them (at least to cover up their faces.)

[watervole.livejournal.com]

I think that people should abide by the customs and conventions of the country they are in. If I was in a muslim country, I would expect to abide by their expectations and I think that they should do so in this country.

How many female tourists wear head coverings, let alone a veil, when in a Muslim country? (they certainly did not when I was in Istanbul)


I think that in this country, there is strong pressure NOT to wear a veil, thus, those who do so are probably doing it more to make a visible statement of faith than anything else.

[dev-iant.livejournal.com]

Head coverings are reasonable - I must say that I don't think that wearing a veil is a reasonable expectation (Western eyes, I suppose).

I disagree on the pressure - while there is pressure from society as a whole not to wear a veil, there can be much stronger pressure from the men in the family to wear a veil, especially if the women have little contact with non-Muslims.

[hawkeye7.livejournal.com]

How many female tourists wear head coverings, let alone a veil, when in a Muslim country? (they certainly did not when I was in Istanbul)

By law, you have to in some countries but few of the locals wear head covering, much less a veil in Western Turkey so it isn't a custom or convention there.

Being a good tourist, I have always respected the conventions in your country, such as removing headgear in churches.

[watervole.livejournal.com]

When I was in Istanbul, as soon as you got out of the city centre, virtually all the women wore headscarves. Indeed, I found that if I wore one myself, it greatly reduced the number of beggers, etc. asking for cash - presumably they thought I was local.

[hawkeye7.livejournal.com]

When I was a boy, it was common for women in the UK to wear head scarves. Is this still the case?

[watervole.livejournal.com]

No, it's very rare now.

[lil-shepherd.livejournal.com]

Women should be allowed to wear a veil if they wish. However, in current circumstances:

1. If they do it should be a valid reason to refuse them a job that requires them to carry/use an identity card that relies on a photograph.

2. They should not be able to object if they are barred from any high security area (or shops - where security cameras cannot see their faces, and their robes are ideal concealment for shop-lifted goods), or areas of public entertainment when there is a raised security risk - without being subject to body search on entering and/or leaving.

Because human beings are designed by evolution to watch and read faces, most people feel deeply unconfortable when confronted by someone whose face they cannot read. (This is, incidentally, as true in the Middle East as here, and is probably one of the reasons behind the introduction of the oppressive use of female face coverings - it is the male ownership of even the female personality.) If women who choose to wear a veil (as opposed to those who are forced to do so by men) feel ostracised, they have only themselves to blame. If isn't natural behaviour for homo sapiens....