watervole | Thoughts on Midsummer Night's Dream and Shakespeare's jokes

The humour in Shakespeare is often difficult for a modern audience. The language is archaic and what was a joke or pun in Shakespeare's time is not always so in the modern day. I've put a section of text below the cut and added my own thoughts. I'd be interested to know which jokes other people found funny. I'd also be particularly interested in comments from anyone who has read Shakespeare in another language who could tell me how the translator approached this passage in particular and passages with puns in general. Do the translators try and translate the line verbatim (which would usually remove the joke) or do they try and substitute an equivalent joke in their own language)

Moonshine

This lanthorn doth the horned moon present;--

(lanthorn = lantern) (horned moon = crescent moon)

DEMETRIUS

He should have worn the horns on his head.

(ie. he's a cuckold - his wife is sleeping with someone else)

THESEUS

He is no crescent, and his horns are
invisible within the circumference.

(He's fat - you'd lose the horns inside the rest of him)

Moonshine

This lanthorn doth the horned moon present;
Myself the man i' the moon do seem to be.

THESEUS

This is the greatest error of all the rest: the man
should be put into the lanthorn. How is it else the
man i' the moon?

(needs no explanation - the joke still works)

DEMETRIUS

He dares not come there for the candle; for, you
see, it is already in snuff.

(already in snuff = it's alight. ie. would need snuffing out)

HIPPOLYTA

I am aweary of this moon: would he would change!

(change = change phase from waxing to waning or vice versa)

THESEUS

It appears, by his small light of discretion, that
he is in the wane; but yet, in courtesy, in all
reason, we must stay the time.

(wane = going from full to crescent, getting dimmer)

LYSANDER

Proceed, Moon.

Moonshine

All that I have to say, is, to tell you that the
lanthorn is the moon; I, the man in the moon; this
thorn-bush, my thorn-bush; and this dog, my dog.

(see my comments yesterday)

DEMETRIUS Why, all these should be in the lanthorn; for all
these are in the moon. But, silence! here comes Thisbe.

(the joke still makes sense)

Flat | Top-Level Comments Only

Interesting thread. The main translator for Shakespeare into German that I know of was Schlegel, in the 19th century. I have a book somewhere about his translations and the reception of the Bard in the German speaking world - I'll have a look at the weekend, see what I can find.

The jokes in the above passage probably rely as much on the puns as on the man in the moon being a popular figure in songs and ballads at the time. W'ere back to my mad songs again.. Mad Tom(from the same song I quoted in the Morris thread earlier) has a run in with him,for example

And when that I have murdered
The man in the moon to a powder
his dog I'll take and his staff I'll break
and then I'll no demon lowther (=serve)

Being a popular figure in songs and ballads just pushes the question back a stage further.

Where did the songs get the image of the man in the moon having a dog?

It was obviously a widespread concept given your quote - but have we any idea where it originally came from?

Translators: Schlegel & Tieck in the passage you quote went for a more or less literal translation, though they're usually very flexible. Later translations tend to go for modern puns as equivalents. I remember in particularly the Baz Lurhmann film version of Romeo and Juliet, which as opposed to the Zeffirelli one - where the dubbing people used the classic Schlegel & Tieck - used a more recent translation, by Frank something or the other, with the result that people suddenly got that in their brief conversation before the nurse arrives, Romeo and Mercutio are joking with each other via bad puns.

I think the later translators had the right idea.

Until I got a decent book on Romeo and Juliet, I hadn't a clue how many jokes and puns there were. And even with the explanations, I realise that I'm still missing stuff. It was only recently that I realised 'collier' almost certainly referred to a ship carrying coal rather than a coalman.

Just checked with my folklorist friend and she says the man in the moon's dog and the bush date back to the middle ages. Apparently its because on a clear night the image of a dog is visible on the moon (if you take the "Rabbits" or hares ears which are visible at the bottom of the moon, and which casued the association of moons with hares, to be the "dog's"'feet, the outline of the dog should be visible, with a little imagination)

The thorn bush, likwise is a matter of perception - the moon looks from some angles like it has the figure of a man on it, carrying a bush on his back

In those days, of course there was no TV or light pollution...

If I take the 'ear's to be the back legs of a dog, I can just about do it.

http://www.scientificblogging.com/graphics/Moon%20man.jpg

I find it easier to see the man with a bundle of sticks on his back.

Thoughts on Midsummer Night's Dream and Shakespeare's jokes

SHakespeare's jokes

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Thornbush and man in the moon's dog

Re: Thornbush and man in the moon's dog