watervole: (Default)
Judith Proctor ([personal profile] watervole) wrote2016-11-25 04:18 pm

Climate change

 Arctic sea is melting at a rate never seen before.  That's  having all kinds of knock-on effects, including the release of methane from the sea floor (a worse gas than CO2 for climate change)

It's a vicious circle.   The methane released by the warmer temperatures helps warm the atmosphere further.  And that isn't the only knock on effect...

And at the same time, the UK government are trying to make us believe that adding a third runway at Heathrow will not prevent us from meeting our promises on Climate Change - a claim that is pretty impossible to believe.

Air travel is one of the largest sources of CO2 emissions that we have any personal control over.  We have to eat. We have to get to work.  We really don't want to freeze in the winter. But we don't have to go on foreign holidays.  

Try any carbon footprint calculator of your choice - they will all tell you the same thing.  Giving up air travel will make a big difference, bigger than any other lifestyle change you can make.

If you have a beloved child, nephew, neice or grandchild, this may be the single best gift you can ever give them.  Try and give them a world that still resembles the one you love now, before we pass the point of no return.

For the sake of my children and everyone's children, I gave up air travel in 2002.

For my granddaughter, and everyone else's grandchildren, I intend to keep that pledge for the rest of my life.
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[personal profile] rpdom 2016-11-25 07:09 pm (UTC)(link)
Next Friday/Sunday will be the first time I have flown in over 40 years. I'm not planning to make a habit of it, but I may do it again sometime.

I do try and be as efficient as possible with most things, as you know.
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[personal profile] lexin 2016-11-27 03:09 pm (UTC)(link)
As you know I don't fly. If I need to go abroad, it'll be to Europe, starting from St Pancras, and I'll think twice about that. It would take a huge thing to make me fly again - though I love flying, it's just too ruinous to the environment.
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[personal profile] igenlode 2016-11-27 08:45 pm (UTC)(link)
I 'gave up' air travel a long time ago, but not for any ecological reasons at the time -- I simply don't like it, avoided doing so until I was permitted no choice in the matter (school trip to Russia as a mandatory part of studying the language; all prior foreign language trips had been undertaken by long-distance coach journeys in order to save the parents money, but travel to Moscow was arranged by aeroplane) and undertook my next Russian journey under my own steam, i.e. by train. Since my passport expired some time ago and I have no plans to go abroad, I am unlikely to be doing any air travel in the future either...

I'm not afraid of flying; it might be quite fun in a small way (hang-gliding, say). What I think I object to is the 'time-machine' aspect; the idea that you get in on one side of the world and get out on another without seeing anything change in between. Admittedly when I crossed Europe by train a lot of it was by night (the journey took over 24 hours), but I did at least see the sea rolling under me between England and France, and the landscape gradually shifting in shape and culture between East and West and through mountains and plains; I didn't just take a short-cut up into the clouds and come dow somewhere else.

And now that 'security concerns' and advanced check-ins have made the physical process of flying so unpleasant, I have absolutely no envy of those who jet off for foreign holidays with the journey as an ordeal to endure, instead of as the first part of the adventure...

[identity profile] vjezkova.livejournal.com 2016-11-25 05:53 pm (UTC)(link)
I am quite scared of the fact that that precious and complex balance of the main components of life on the Earth is being destroyed. Not only what you are writing about, alas.
Ah, your pledge is absolutely wonderful and unselfish...unfortunately it is just a symbol of your awareness...I am afraid our world has already crossed that line, we just keep consumming and we are trapped and we are "hostages" of those who are The Producers, Providers or whatever you want them call like. I am sure there must be "clean" ways of using energy but they will just not allow to use them. I know, I know, it sounds like those theories of conspiracy but I really can´t help considering some of them very...probable.
I think we all want to give the next generations our blue planet healthy and lovely...
I bow to you but I dare not to say that I will follow your example - not that I travel by air (so far 5times in my whole life) - simply I can´t allow money on airtickets.

[identity profile] coth.livejournal.com 2016-11-25 06:26 pm (UTC)(link)
I have every sympathy with this, except that from what I'm seeing you no longer need to try to motivate people with worry for their grandchildren. Arctic and Antarctic ice melt are tipping points / multipliers / accelerants that mean we are going to be seeing the next stages of catastrophe well within our own lifetimes. We can add fear for our own comforts, and in some cases our own survival, to our list of motivators.

[identity profile] coth.livejournal.com 2016-11-25 06:41 pm (UTC)(link)
On the air travel thing...

(1) You shouldn't be finding any new reasons to fly, nor should you be flying to be a tourist.
(2) We shouldn't be expanding Heathrow.

but

(3) We are human and we do things in networks. When you already have worldwide networks (e.g. overseas family, fandom, multi-national business) some considered air travel to maintain and use networks is worth (imh), some personal air travel with suitable carbon offsetting. We won't solve these climate change problems without access to people and networks round the world.

[identity profile] judith proctor (from livejournal.com) 2016-11-25 06:58 pm (UTC)(link)
There are increasing sources of clean energy, though the fossil fuel producers are trying very hard to keep the tax breaks on their side.

However, solar/wind is affordable in most countries for domestic use.

I have my electricity from a renewable energy company. Can you get that where you are?

The basic problem with aviation is that there is no green source of aviation fuel. (biofuels just reduce the land available for growing food and are energy intensive to produce in any case)

We can't power aircraft by wind or solar energy.

[identity profile] judith proctor (from livejournal.com) 2016-11-25 07:14 pm (UTC)(link)
Some air travel is necessary, but probably only about 1% of what actually happens.

I think it's possible to maintain most networks via the internet and Skype, etc. I have close friends whom I've never met in the flesh and never will.

I do agree that it's easier to build networks in the flesh, and some forms of discussion are always more effective that way. However, personally, I'd only justify those networks if they have a chance to benefit the planet as a whole.

Can you honestly say, hand on heart, that your overseas fannish connections help us solve climate change problems?

The catch with carbon offsetting is that it doesn't really work. I can give you the long version if you like, but the short version is:
There's fossil carbon and there's carbon already in the ecosystem.
If you add new fossil carbon, then no matter what you do, there will still be the same amount of 'natural' carbon, but with extra added fossil carbon.

Carbon offsetting can't decrease the total amount of carbon out there (until someone finds a way of removing it from the atmosphere and sticking it deep underground at an affordable cost)

Planting trees is largely doomed. IF they survive (which many won't), then they need 20-30 years to absorb the promised carbon. After which, someone is likely to cut them down as a 'renewable' energy source and claim that is carbon neutral. Double and triple accounting is a real problem with trees. Countries try and count them towards their score as well.

But the best trees in the world are only absorbing 'natural' carbon that had already been lost when the land was cleared originally, not your 'fossil' carbon. (If the trees aren't planted on land that was historically woodland, then the area is unlikely to be one suitable for trees)

The world is heating at a rate that means we have to lock up the 'natural' carbon in order to have a chance of standing still. Any extra carbon is more than the ecosystem can absorb.

[identity profile] judith proctor (from livejournal.com) 2016-11-25 07:15 pm (UTC)(link)
You're completely right about it being in our lifetimes.

It's just hard to get people to realise how fast this is going to impact.

I went for the soft sell, there. Guilty as charged.

[identity profile] coth.livejournal.com 2016-11-25 07:22 pm (UTC)(link)
Do fannish connections help solve climate change problems - not directly. But fannish connections have a good deal to do with the reasons why I know about climate change, and even more about why I don't despair of us dealing with them. And everything is connected. If people can't keep alive personal connections that are NOT political, diplomatic, commercial and military then there is no point in worrying anyway. Fandom (and other like networks) gives us glimpses of the future we would all like to live in, and that's important.

Does planting trees help solve climate change - not directly. But there are many beneficial reasons to plant trees that contribute to the kinds of networks and thinking that will help us to deal with climate change. So you might as well plant trees - better than some of the other things you might be doing.

[identity profile] vjezkova.livejournal.com 2016-11-25 09:11 pm (UTC)(link)
CR is too small a country and using the wind generators is not possible everywhere. The same for the photovoltaic stations, they eat our agriculture soil and...and using this source only led to higher prices of electricity because the expenses on these did it. There are not so many companies and definitely none dealing with a renewable energy here in the south. Simply - the conditions are different here as well as the laws - they enabled a big corruption in the "alternative sources" companies...
Yes, using biofuel meant growing rape seed everywhere and this is a big dissaster for the environment here, the traditional plants disappeared and must be imported, the wildlife suffer and I really hate rape seed in the fields.

[identity profile] la-avispa.livejournal.com 2016-11-30 08:03 am (UTC)(link)
They are at least trying: https://aviationvoice.com/boeing-supports-icao-aircraft-co2-emissions-standard-201602091038/

[identity profile] judith proctor (from livejournal.com) 2016-11-30 10:25 am (UTC)(link)
IT sounds good, but it's really a catch 22.

AS they get more fuel efficient, they get cheaper to operate, so people can afford more flights and the number of aircraft rises.

It's the same with cars. Efficient cars mean people drive further.

Emissions from transport as a sector are going up even as emissions in other areas are slowly coming under control.