dowries and bride prices

[watervole]

Something that has puzzled me for a long time is the fact that some cultures require a dowry - the bride has to come with a really large gift - and other cultures require the groom to pay for his bride - the exact opposite custom.

Does anyone know what factors influenced the development of these very different customs and what factors lead to them continuing (or not continuing, as the case may be)?

It's something that has puzzled me for a long time.

Comments

[cdybedahl]

I don't have an answer to your question, but some quick net-research confirms my memory from old classes that it's relatively common with cultures that practice both at the same time (for example, paragraph 163 of the Code of Hammurabi mentions both and how they relate to each other in the case of a married woman dying without having given birth to sons).

Looking at rules from two systems wildly separate in time and geography (the Code of Hammurabi and 17th century Swedish law), they both have in common that it looks like both bride price and dowry are parts of pretty complex systems, and the point of them (together with dower, property specifically given to the bride and not available to her husband) seem to primarily be to form a social security net. Who gets what property after someone dies is a big part of the laws.

[watervole]

Ah! This is starting to make sense. Providing for widows (and children) must have been a major issue in societies where many men would die relatively young.

I note that Mohammed stated that the bride price was supposed to go to the bride and not her parents, and that she was to retain it in the case of divorce. (though the fact that he had to legislate this also suggests that it was sometimes abused)

[fjm.livejournal.com]

No, but most dowry cultures actually negotiate what the groom is bringing also, it's just less visible because it stays with his family. Keith Wrightson's Earthly Necessities discusses this for seventeenth century England. A girl without a dowry would have difficulty marrying but so would a man without expectations.

[watervole.livejournal.com]

So it was more a way of ensuring that the couple had enough money to set up home?

I hadn't known that the groom's contribution was negotiated as well, but it makes good sense.

(I though you'd probably be one of the people who had knowledge in this field)

[fjm.livejournal.com]

Very rich families negotiated settlements; ie what the woman got on widowhood.

[rockwell-666.livejournal.com]

ie pre-nups are nothing new! :-)

[http://users.livejournal.com/la_marquise_de_/]

It's economic: it's been suggested that bridewealth is common in cultures where female labour makes a substantial contribution to family income (often pastoral cultures or ones with adze- rather than plough-based agriculture). Dowries occur where female labour is less important and where girls are regarded as a burden on a family income. I've also seen it suggested that bridewealth is more common in situations where inheritance goes through the women (sister's son inheritance) rather than through the male line, where daughters are basically lost to the family as they cannot propagate it.

[watervole.livejournal.com]

That all makes good logical sense. Thanks.

[sweetheartwhale.livejournal.com]

I know only that traditionally, the coins sewn on a bellydancer's coin belt are intended as her dowry as once married,in Islamic culture she would have to give up dancing in public...

[sweetheartwhale.livejournal.com]

Also when I got married in Russia to my first husband the wedding guests gave the dowry to the bride, every married female guest gave me money while her male partner drank a toast with the groom. I don't know if the custom was Russian or soviet...

[watervole.livejournal.com]

So she can advertise ALL her assets while dancing!