watervole | Icons and livejournal

I'm sure most of you will be aware of the current furore over whether breast-feeding pics should be allowed as default icons. Personally, I have no problem with them at all and I gather that the fuss may have in fact been started by someone who complained about breast-feeding icons as a protest when someone complained about his icon of a naked woman.

The problem for me, is that some people are now using icons of naked or semi-naked women (not necessarily with babies) as a protest against the censorship.

I can understand this, but it makes me uncomfortable.

I don't actually like bumping unexpectedly into pictures of naked women when I'm just chatting with my friends. (I've no objection to them in places where I expect them and I'm fine with pornographic art - when I'm looking for it)

Comeing across a naked picture in a social setting sends out a message that the user sees women primarily as sex objects and that makes me uncomfortable. I'm not going to start complaining to LJ, just asking people to think twice before becoming too whole-heartedly involved in the fight against censorship.

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Just...word. Honestly. I'm all in favour of people using breastfeeding icons, but when it comes to "page 3 girl" icons, I'm not. Call me a hypocrite if you like.

Things get bad when issues get polarized. What annoys me about negative reactions to women breast-feeding is that it says that people should feel ashamed of breast-feeding, and that's just WRONG. Breast-milk is the best thing for babies, and should be encouraged, not discouraged. But if people say "oh, we don't want to see it, you shouldn't show images of it, you should hide away when you do it" -- gah, it makes me mad.

Why do people protest about it? Is it because a naked woman's breast is automatically pornographic? But if that's the case then the user sees women primarily as sex objects, which I agree with you as not being a good thing.

I thought they protested because they were uncomfortable with the idea of a breast in a non-pornographic context.

I do not understand this Earth-Logic.

Well, no, but it has been pointed out to me occasionally that a few Earth-Men are bothered by the idea of sexually-unavailable-women.

Ew.

I, of course, have my "boobie" photo, which is me in a bra and looks like a bikini top, but I don't post anything more explicit. Why? It's not because I am a prude, but because I am an adult and I realize that some people (like me) are allowed to use LJ AT WORK. Some people have children and are uncomfortable with them seeing sexual icons. Some people have to surf at libraries. I do not want icons like that defaulting on my computer screen in a public setting or if friends/family are visiting when I am looking at LJ.

I don't have problems with breastfeeding moms because most people at work wouldn't think of them as pornographic.

Interesting thought: The last time I saw a woman breast-feeding was at my last morris dancing performance. She was in the front row of an audience at a school for children of 5 to 11 years.

Usually breast-feeding involves children. ;-)

I can't see why anyone should find it objectionable on any grounds.

The more children who see mothers breast-feeding, the better. As a species, we are very imitative. If we see it done by someone else, we're far more likely to do it too.

It is against the law here to as much as attempt to dissuade any woman from breastfeeding. An attempt from LJ to restrict breastfeeding icons would expose them to legal action.

I do think once more before I post at the moment. Does my current userpic make you uncomfortable,

watervole?

LJ Abuse will currently act against anyone who has a default userpic showing breastfeeding, if a complaint is lodged first.

That one hits no problems on the nudity front, but comes close to giving me a headache from the alernating image.

I do think that the ideal is sex equality on the nudity front, despite cultural pressure.

The icon is slow enough not to hurt my head. But this this better?

Much better!

Equality on the nudity front is complicated as nature has played a trick on upright apes to switch the main erogenous zone from the buttocks (which do not show as strongly when upright as when on all fours) to the breasts, which are essentially buttock mimics.

Females do not react to male breasts in the same way that males react to female ones. We like a nice bum, but it is not such a strong trigger as female breasts are for males.

Hence, exposing the breasts can be seen as a sexual invitation - which is annoying as I'd be perfectly happy to go around stark naked if this were not the case.

I'm not entirely convinced by the buttock explanation of breasts. But more importantly, 'can be seen as a sexual invitation' is a red herring. We're language-using: no matter what, the obligation is to explicitly ask for consent.

We wander naked at home, unless we've visitors (if we remember they're here :-)

I've seen this claim and I have to say that I don't think the relevant bit of law actually means that:

http://major-clanger.livejournal.com/148032.html?thread=553792#t553792

I think it would be nice if that law did give the protection you're suggesting, but unfortunately I'm pretty sure it doesn't.

I find the breastfeeding ones actually make me somewhat uncomfortable, but that's just me. In any case, I certainly don't believe they need to be censored or restricted.

I do have naked icons but I generally only use them in posts and threads where they fit in with the discussion. I don't spring them on people randomly.

THat's exactly what I mean. In context and where a thread is on that sort of topic (and when it's behind a cut tag for the benefit of these reading lj at work) I've no problem at all.

I came across one (not one of yours) yesterday in a post where it wasn't on topic, and it threw me.

Oh, that's what the sudden rash of breastfeeding icons is about!

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