Tudor clothing

[watervole]

 I've just been watching Shardlake - 

Overall, with a few minor reservations, I liked it.  Particularly on the costume (given that I currently have an interest in Tudor/early Stuart costume)

I was virtually drooling over Alice Fetewer. See that headwrap?

And look at those detachable sleeves!

On screen they looked as though they were knitted, but I can't be sure in this clip. Knitted or fabric could both have been correct for the period - I'm contemplating knitting a pair for myself when time allows.

The period illustrations I've seen show the sleeves at pinned on, rather than sewn, but that's not to say they were never sewn (but would have made them harder to wash separately).

 

I will say that everyone was underdressed, though. Snow on the ground all the time, in a big cold monastery?  No central heating, fires are expensive.  People would have had more layers of clothing.

Alice should have been had ties on her smock to fasten it at the neck when it was cold. And a piece of linen round her shoulders.  And probably a waistcoat as well. (In this particular context, a 'waistcoat' would be more like a jumper worn on top of the smock at underwear - 'waistcoat' has a lot of meanings during this era..)

It's even more obvious when she's out of doors. She would have a had a gown of some kind and probably a short cloak as well.

So, great clothes for summer, but you have to image a very warm monastery, and suspect that as a love interest, she is required to have a lower neckline....

 

You'll notice that the men got  more cold weather clothing...

Shardlake appears to suffer from the popular misconceptions about cloaks with hoods, but it looks as though Jack may possibly have a separate hood, which would be more correct (and far easier to wear in a way that keeps your neck warm and the hood from billowing round your face.

but overall, pretty good and could have been far worse.

 

Comments

[kerk_hiraeth]

I will always regret that; even given his objectionable attitudes to Scottish independence; especially shocking to me given his progressive way of portraying queer characters ( he had male and female characters who were gay, and even had a trans character in one book), that C.J. Sansom never got to complete his plan to carry Matthew Shardlake's story on to Elizabeth's accession to the throne.

That his last novel, Tombland, was so magnificent only makes that harder.

Can't recall the name, but there's a youtube channel where someone makes and comments on historically accurate costuming in period movies & TV shows. It would be fascinating to see what she has to say.

I doubt I'll be watching any visual versions though; prefer to keep my images of the characters in my head, but I hope you enjoy the series. I'll probably check out people's reactions to the TV versions vs the book though.

kerk

[igenlode]

Brr... I'm sitting here with a rug around my shoulders, and she definitely looks underdressed! Did women not get shawls in the 16th century? (My vague mental image can't produce any -- I have a feeling they may have been an 18th or even 19th-century thing...)
And what are the popular misconceptions about cloaks with hoods?

I was lent the first few (?four) Shardlake books some years ago, but didn't care much for them; as I recall the historical detail felt very forced and 'as you know, Jim' to me, which is something I'm becoming increasingly conscious of in literature nowadays -- perhaps because our lifestyles these days are now so utterly divorced from the realities of the pre-motor-car, pre-electricity, pre-smartphone eras that writers feel the need to explain things that an earlier generation would still have had in folk memory, perhaps due to a desire to show off research to prove historical credentials, perhaps just due to changing fashions in writing styles and/or the amount of hand-holding that readers expect?

I didn't know that a TV series was on the cards. I can imagine that divorced from the narrative style it might well actually work better for me in that format -- I was disappointed recently by reading Frank Tallis' original Liebermann/Rheinhardt novels after enjoying the TV series of "Vienna Blood", finding them really pretty clunky. But to be fair I suspect one is always going to prefer the version one came across first and judge the different one -- whether original or adaptations-- by its failure to match all the elements that first won our hearts, authentic or not. (A bit like people maintaining that 'the TV adaptation' of "The Scarlet Pimpernel" is better because it gives Marguerite more to do, introduces an additional romantic tension and includes sword-fights; I can see what they are saying, but I'm not conscious of a lack of these things when reading the original novel because they have never been in there, and that's the version I first encountered!)

I'm still wondering what happened to the promised second season of "Marie Antoinette", which was supposed to have been picked up by the BBC at least a year ago :-(

[vera_j]

I am drooling here with you over the dresses! Accidentally, I am having a "Jane Austen spell" and spend free time watching every possible version of her novels in films - and oh oh, the clothes, the clean lines (but sometimes they are not right too). Thanks for sharing and I must to see Shardlake - not known here at all!

[watervole]

I tend to refer web sources to videos, they can go more into the details. There are some very good costume sites that I'm gradually locating through my current interest in the English Civil War. But things were related in the Tudor period, so I'm getting a feeling for the things that were subtly different.

I have so many good books in my reading queue...

[watervole]

Cloaks didn't have hoods. Pure and simple. If you've every worn a cloaked hood on a windy day, you'll understand why. they used very effective separate hoods that covered the neck and shoulder as well as the head, and fastened up round the neck.

[watervole]

I'd never heard of Shardlake either until SelinaK reviewed it. I was impressed that they actually cast an actor with a very similar disability to the one Sharklake has in the books. Look at his right hand in the photo (he's the man on the left of the photo)

[igenlode]

I've worn a hooded cycle cape, and basically the rule is that if you want to have the hood up then you need to zip up the front tight to the throat, or the hood won't stay on for a minute ;-) You can leave the throat open for ventilation provided the hood stays stowed away, but the moment the hood comes into play the cape has to be sealed up tightly -- it's just a wind-scoop otherwise.

Presumably the mediaeval shoulder/neck hood functions in a very similar way...

(But the university scholar's gown *does* have a hood, even if it is now a vestigial one -- that must be descended from something? And the classic 18th-century ladies' cloak has a hood, even if it's a very wide one to accommodate the hairstyle and not in the least windproof...)

[watervole]

The scholars gown has a separate hood. See https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Groves_classification_system for a wonderful variety of hood styles.

It looks like the Medieval liripipe was a major influence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liripipe (I imagine the tail of the hood could probably be used as a scarf...

[igenlode]

I can't believe that someone -- in the modern era! -- has come up with a specific classification system for academic hoods... :-D

It looks like the Medieval liripipe was a major influence. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liripipe (I imagine the tail of the hood could probably be used as a scarf)
Come to think of it I remember seeing a video once where someone was demonstrating how he rolled the face of his hood back so that it stayed put while he was working, and suggesting that this was the origin of those mediaeval rolled hats with tails...
*searches* This one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_XvEK6d9hEM

[watervole]

Ah yes! I'd forgotten that one! I love that guy, he does great videos, including the one on cloaks.

[igenlode]

I love that guy, he does great videos, including the one on cloaks.

Ah, this one? Secrets of Medieval Cloaks: Protection, Status, and Style (I'm not subscribed to him, I just happened to have been randomly recommended that hood/hat video once...)

Now I'm getting cloak envy... (I am, as it happens, currently wearing a blanket.) I like the way they point out in the comments that Tolkien, who was of course a Professor of Anglo-Saxon literature and culture, is clearly well aware of the concept of separate hoods in "The Hobbit"!

I've done the 'wool when it's wet' thing, and while I was indeed absolutely fine while I kept moving, despite being drenched to the skin, once I got to the pub and went indoors I found myself becoming so chilled that I was overtaken by uncontrollable fits of shivering and had to go to a friend's house and borrow some dry clothing -- and that was in a centrally heated environment. So soaked woolen cloth, admittedly very lightweight and finely woven in that case, will retain body heat being generated from inside, but will also cause severe chill by evaporation once your body cools down. I don't know if a more coarsely/closely-woven fabric and/or more tightly fitted clothing would have worked better...

(My hair simply broke off when it reached shoulder length, as well; I wonder if that is the reason for that particular fashion/style?)

I am amused by the commenter who objects that cycle capes are "monstrosities which reach all the way forward to cover your hands on the handlebars", which is of course the *whole point* (and the reason why delivery riders have those huge 'scooter bar muffs' fitted to their machines :-p)