Victorian forms of address

[watervole]

 I'm working on the script for a musical set in Victorian London.  (My brother in law is writing the music and another person is doing the lyrics)

My immediate problem is forms of address.  History books don't tend to cover this.

Does anyone know how a lower-class boy would address his mother? "Mum" feels too modern to my ear.

Also, forms of address between adults vary by age and social standing.

I assume that Henry Mayhew and Richard Beard would address one another as "Mayhew" and "Beard".  Correct?

How about Mayhew talking to a female street seller?  I'm guessing that he would use her Christian name: "Hannah", but she would probably address him as "Mr Mayhew"?

Also, how would he introduce himself to her in the first place?  Would he even mention his first name? Or would he just say, "My name is Mayhew, and I'd like to interview you for an article I'm writing for the 'Morning Chronicle'."

Henry Mayhew was a real person, and a contemporary of Dickens, who did much to publicise the appalling living and working conditions of the London poor.

Comments

[damerell]

I'd crib from the Holmes canon shamelessly...

[linda-joyce.livejournal.com]

I can't honestly say what the Victorians would gave used. But I do know what my Uncle Bill called his mother and father. my uncle BIll was born in Edwardian Wales, his parents were very definitely Victorian and we were very firmly working class. Uncle Bill called his parents Mam(Welsh version of Mum) and Dad. And come to think of it there was Mrs Evans living in my village when I was a child she died in the very early 60s in her late 90s, 96 I think her sons were about 20 years older than Uncle Bill. They used Mam when referring to her.

I doubt if Mr Mayhew would even bother to introduce himself to a flower seller, even one he wanted to interview, I think he would just have said, I work for the Morning Chronicle. I would like to interview you. The working class were treated somewhat worse than the working horses and while you would call your horse by its name you wouldn't introduce yourself to it. Mayhew might have been different from the rest of his country men but even if he did introduce himself he would have just used his surname.

[pennski.livejournal.com]

What a fascinating response! This is what I would expect, but I had no evidence to back it up.

[vjezkova.livejournal.com]

This is highly interesting! I hope there will be more comments and I hope you will get a picture of Victorian life. And I am very curious, of course!

[lil-shepherd.livejournal.com]

Past fiction reading suggests 'Ma' and, indeed, 'Mam', even in London, but I am no expert. Hang on, and I'll check the OED...

[lil-shepherd.livejournal.com]

Okay. 'Mum' in fact in recorded in 1595, but seems to be mainly rural, and, in particular, East Anglian until the late 19th early 20th Century, from the references. Though there are Victorian references to 'mummy' they seem to be very regional.

'Mam' is equally old, and seems to have been quite widespread. The dictionary says "superseded by Mum in Southern English'.

'Ma' dates back to 1823 and seems to have been quite widely used - there are a lot of Victorian references and they seem to cover a spectrum of areas and classes. (A number of fiction references.)

'Mamma' I need to copy over the quote

a. = mother n.1 1a. Chiefly used in the vocative, or preceded by a possessive adjective (as ‘my mama’); also without article in the manner of a proper name.Historically, the status of the word was always the same as that of papa n.1 In the 18th cent., although ˈmamma as used by young children was probably common, maˈmma seems to have been confined to the higher classes, and among them to have been freely used not only by children but by adults of both sexes. In the 19th cent. its use was much extended, and among the lower middle class was a mark of ‘gentility’; more recently, in British English, it has become somewhat arch. and is little used by children. The word is nowadays more widespread in American usage (cf. momma n.)

[watervole.livejournal.com]

Thanks. My gut said 'Mama' was upper class.

I think young William will go with 'Mam'. (and 'Dad' if that sounds right to you, though his father has very little part to play in the tale)

[watervole.livejournal.com]

Interesting point about whether he would have introduced himself at all.
In our case, he will introduce himself, as he's the protagonist of the play, so the audience need to know who is. Poetic licence.

But it's definitely just surname. The audience may only find his first name from the programme notes.

[rockwell-666.livejournal.com]

I can't help directly, but I'd suggest that reading some Dickens or similar authors might be useful since they'd be using the conventional forms of address of their day.

[watervole.livejournal.com]

I would, but I loathe Dickins. I tried three of his books just to be sure I hadn't picked a bad one. I really don't want another.

Maybe I'll go with Conan Doyle, though I think he was writing a bit later than my period.

[sam-t.livejournal.com]

Elizabeth Gaskell? Brontës? There's definitely some upper-class and varieties of middle class visiting rural poor in Agnes Grey.